Automate This Episode #01: The State of ePayables 2019 part 1
Automate This #01: The State of ePayables 2019 part 1
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In our inaugural episode, Helee Lev, Chief Revenue Officer at Goby, and Ryan Nelson, Chief Operating Officer at Goby, break down and discuss the first half of the Ardent Partners State of ePayables 2019 report. They cover the first two chapters of the report, “The State of Accounts Payable” and “The State of ePayables”.
Read the podcast transcript:
HELEE: Welcome to Automate This, the podcast for conversations about accounts payable and beyond. Today is part one of a two-part podcast digesting “The State of ePayables Report” by Ardent Partners in 2019. I will personally admit that this is my inaugural podcast, both as a person and with Goby. I don’t know about you, Ryan. Have you ever done a podcast before?
RYAN: I have not. Many-time listener for sure, first-time performer, if you will.
HELEE: Well, we won’t hold it against you, and we’ll see if we can get through this today.
HELEE: Some exciting stuff here. So Ardent Partners puts out an annual report. They’ve been doing it for about 14 years. It’s 36 pages, surveys about 167 AP and finance leaders; 70% in North America and the rest in Europe and Asia. So if you want some more insight into what your peers or peers of your boss or your boss is thinking, this would be a good two-part podcast for you to listen to versus reading you know the 36 pages yourself. Your call, but personally I’d rather listen to myself and Ryan digest it for you. And with that, you might be wondering who am I. Helee Lev, Chief Revenue Officer at Goby. I will mention that my background is in architecture so you should definitely listen to me digest a podcast about accounts payable, but much experience in the field so…
RYAN: Great. Thanks, Helee, and my name is Ryan Nelson and I am the Chief Operating Officer here at Goby. Helee, I know you joke about the background, but I’m really excited to share some of my insights from the document and get your feedback with all the customers and prospects that you spent time with over the last many years. And I’ll start here at page three, jumping right to page three of this 36-page document. Again, we’ll get through half of it today.
They start talking about the major errors of the modern age. This reminded me of Sapiens. We recently read in the Goby book club, of course, which was I found a very enjoyable book where they talked in Sapiens about the cognitive revolution, the agricultural revolution, the industrial revolution, eventually technology. And we’re kind of moving on from that now, the technological revolution into the digital revolution or as Ardent puts it for the AP leaders everywhere, this is the dawning of the age of intelligence.
There’s four chapters. Looking at the table of contents now and there’s four chapters so four categories that we’re going to dive into. “The State of Accounts Payable” so the broad view of accounts payable and then ePayables specifically which we’ll define and then what a best in class accounts payable department looks like and strategies for success for anyone. We’re not going to spend a ton of time on the ever-interesting appendix although I’m sure there’s a lot of value there as well.
HELEE: Perhaps we’ll do another podcast to digest the appendix.
RYAN: Are you an appendix reader regularly?
RYAN: I do if I read a book, typically. Like when we read book club books and there’s an appendix, I’ll try and glance.
HELEE: Perhaps an afterword, but not an appendix. Not for me.
RYAN: I think that’s probably what I intended. Okay. “The State of Accounts Payable.” So I’m going to read a somewhat interesting paragraph here from chapter one, “The State of Accounts Payable.”
“Over the last three years, finance executives state there has been an increased focus on the role of the modern day AP function. This results in a more broad-based understanding of the function and its ability to impact the values, savings and intelligence. It’s a departure from the past where the AP group was relegated to the unglamorous back office managing a long-term cycle of tactical manual processes, an abundance of paper destined to remain a function that would never see its day in the sun.”
Yeah which obviously connects, at least for me, immediately to the way that we approach AP. We have to rethink what AP can be and I think that’s what the industry seems to be doing.
HELEE: Yeah. I mean that I think that paragraph that you chose to read painted a very dramatic picture of you know not seeing their day in the sun and I’m thinking of hamsters behind a wheel in a basement. Certainly, it can’t be that bad, but you know point taken. And another word that I hear a lot that seems to resonate with the folks that we talk to is just tribal; this word of tribal. Accounts payable is a tribal practice. That it’s only Debbie who has been here for 37 years knows what to do and if she were to get hit by a bus, the whole organization’s you know completely done for. So a lot to bring out of the dark ages and certainly into the era of intelligence if that’s where we’re headed.
RYAN: Yeah, and I think we’re going to gather to this point quite a bit as we talk through this. It’s the opportunity to get more strategic opportunities, create enterprise value. You’re starting to see this opportunity to emerge from other back office and operational pieces as well. So not just think of them as back office or operational pieces, but there’s actually an opportunity to create more value for an enterprise. So they’re really going to hit us over the head with that throughout the report.
HELEE: Yeah. And I mean the cultural benefits of that shouldn’t be understated either, right? So aside from the fact that you know you could stop pushing around a bunch of paper, teach more people than just Debbie how to do accounts payable, throw in some technology, make it intelligent, you can also elevate the team and the staff that are doing this day-to-day and have them feel like they’re valuable corporate citizens and a key part to the functioning and the vitality of the business rather than just you know a necessary evil.
RYAN: Exactly. And I think that’s the primary point of the first of the four sections here, “The State of Accounts Payable.” Overall, it’s a department being looked at as something that can be more strategic. And I really like this really simple line: “In 2019, the state of accounts payable is strong. The state of accounts payable has not always been strong. In fact, it has historically been weak.” So I think that’s an exciting time for practitioners of AP and those in the AP department. This is a strong time as a career choice I think for AP. Very specifically, digital transformations; something significantly more impactful than simple process automation. Digital transformation of an AP department is an opportunity to use technology to reimagine the organization’s entire scope. So again, much as we like to do at Goby, and it’s not the simplest thing to do, but really think about what AP can be, not necessarily what it’s been on a day-to-day basis for the past 15 years. But with the technology in front of us in a digital transformation, it can be something quite dramatically different.
HELEE: Yeah. It’s shocking to me that they would describe it in the past as you know only recently getting strong or a weak function. Because to me, I think about the necessity of running any business whether it’s a lemonade stand and you’re five or whether it’s Shell oil, you’ve got to process and pay bills. You’ve got to get bills through; you’ve got to pay your bills. So to me, to ever let that be a weak function or even as we talk to customers who just accept late fees as the necessary evil of doing business. They’re like, “Yep, we pay about 100,000 dollars in late fees.” I’m like, “Doesn’t that make you just like scream? Are you up at night over that?” And it’s just been kind of accepted as business as usual because that’s really all that they can handle with what they have. So happy to hear that it’s taking a turn for the strong certainly and look forward to seeing the day when I get on a call and I say, “Hey guys! What are your late fees?” and they say, “Almost nothing.”
RYAN: That’s right. And to drive that home with data, Ardent Partners here says that a majority of businesses perceive AP, and that’s 55% perceive AP as very or exceptionally valuable to the overall enterprise. So that’s a nice change to hear. I’d like to see that number a little bit more, a little bit higher.
We’re going to talk about a couple of the key components, a couple more things around the broad state of accounts payable. And of course, I think everyone has been living this one and this has been long in the conversation. Frustration with paper has been a primary driver for placing more emphasis on the front end of the total AP process. The result has been that more AP leaders are transforming the initial program capabilities which are the invoice receipts and the approval workflow. So finally, people are saying paper is out and efficiency is in. Has that already not been done?
HELEE: That’s the craziest part about it is that really people are still literally pushing paper around. Bill comes in the mail, someone opens it, someone stamps it, someone scans it, they print it, they lock it upstairs, they put it in a folder. This is not an uncommon AP process that we have heard of. And I think just with the historical notion of not necessarily investing as much money in the back office as you do in the flashier things like marketing and sales and your business and your product, that is just the result of exactly that. You’re not investing in innovation; you’re not investing in technology so don’t be shocked that AP departments still remain in the stone age when it comes to these kinds of things. But the good news is it can be easily cleaned up and remedied and brought into the now with a couple of the right partners and a good plan.
RYAN: And here are a couple specific examples. So if we apply these better practices, some of the strategic opportunities that we’ve talked about; procurement, of course. Procurement can benefit from the power of AP’s ability to close the procure to pay loop in a more efficient manner while treasury or even executive team can use the day-to-day insights of what AP is doing and processing to understand and then impact the business’s financial health. So all of those kinds of strategic concepts coming directly from an effective accounts payable department.
HELEE: I don’t know, Ryan. Those are dangerous words. You’re talking about procurement, AP and the executive team aligning around processes and data, getting along, living in a harmonious state. Is that really possible?
RYAN: According to Ardent. I didn’t write this, but according to Ardent, it’s possible. And of course, we believe it. And I think to get there, we’re going to talk now about the top AP pressures, and these are really operational pressures for the AP department. They will probably sound familiar to the AP practitioners out there. But I’ll read through these and let you comment on if this is what you’re hearing from prospects and customers these days. But the top pressure still is a high percentage of exceptions. Exceptions remain the bane of AP’s existence. The next top pressure is invoice payment approvals taking too long, all right? So, there’s too many exceptions to deal with and when I get something into the proper flow, it still takes too long to get it approved. A third would be lack of respect or status within the organization; that kind of burns. Too much paper which we’ve talked about. The pressure of getting the budget to invest in automation. So, you’ve got these operational things that are probably bothering you and then you want to do something about it, you’ve got these strategic initiatives, but you’ve got pressure of are you going to get the budget. And then the other pressure, the final one here is lack of visibility into invoice and payment data. So, you’ve done your kind of front end and middle end work, but you know aren’t getting the visibility into the payment side of it. So…
HELEE: Yeah. And I can’t tell you especially that second one. So well, the first and second one. So, people talk about exceptions and if you looked up the definition of the word “exception,” they say we have about 70% exceptions; the invoices that aren’t processed straight through. Well then is that an exception or is that just the rule? Is that just saying most of your invoices are not you know, there are exceptions, they need human intervention, they’re not going to go just straight through. So that is kind of a silly notion to me certainly.
And then this idea that you have an approver, right? It’s your job to approve invoices or maybe you’re in a department, you ordered something and it’s not your job to approve an invoice, but you still have to be a good you know steward to your organization and a good fiduciary that people would sit on bills and just not approve them and the AP managers don’t have the wherewithal to escalate properly and timely to a manager to get these things done. I don’t know. Walk over to someone’s desk, shake them and say, “Can you please just not take 42 days to approve something?” But the good news is it’s such an easy problem to fix. It’s such an easy problem to fix. These are not hard problems to fix with the technology that’s available today.
RYAN: And all you’d need to fix them I would imagine is a game plan which Ardent provides right here in the last page of the first section of the report. The game plan solves most, if not all of the tactical and manual based issues that have plagued the function for decades. To your point, the technology now exists. It’s still a huge lift, but solve those problems then you’ll be in a position to develop and build an intelligent function that uses its evolving business perception to engage more stakeholders, bring greater investments, support better business outcomes, all those things that we touched on that can be done strategically if you have an effective operational thing in place. So that’s the first section. We’re a quarter of the way through this report.
HELEE: You still think it’s better than just reading it though?
RYAN: I mean the insights that you’re providing, I think absolutely they are. Okay. We are going to talk about, that was not the last page. We’ve got one more key component actually in that section, the root cause of all evil. We’re going to talk about, we’re going to dive into the exceptions because I thought this was interesting. So, one more section here on the state of accounts payable, “Why are there so many exceptions?” You commented about that they can be as high as 70% which doesn’t make sense, but number one exception: discrepancy between PO and invoice.
RYAN: Yeah. I think we all understand that. Supplier error, if you can believe it. Sometimes, they, the vendors, they make a mistake.
HELEE: They’re imperfect.
RYAN: The lack of appeal causes an exception, a bottleneck in a process, an incorrect PO which the report talks about being pretty rare. Actually, the appeals are correct. It’s usually the invoice that’s incorrect.
HELEE: That doesn’t match up, yeah.
RYAN: Yeah. You take your time to develop appeal at one time. It’s essentially a contract, you get it right and then vendors aren’t necessarily matching it. And of course, failure to deliver the goods or the services is going to cause an exception. And then a coding error; not tagging the right code to an invoice or to an invoice line item. So those are the top sources of those exceptions that you talked about. And one of the strategic, unfortunate components of this is they put a strain on the buyer’s relationship with their vendors. They create friction in the relationship, and you know how we feel about friction here at Goby.
HELEE: Must be eliminated. That is the real root of all evil, not just in accounts payable, but everywhere.
RYAN: All right. No friction as we slide into the second component of the report here, “The State of ePayables.” So that was that “The State of Accounts Payable,” a little bit broader picture. Now, we’re going to talk about the state of electronic or ePayables or the terminology we hear quite often, AP automation. So let’s just call it AP automation or ePayables. And to quote directly from the report here, “Cloud-based software has formally entered into its prime years where even small enterprises have the ability to access transformative technology.” So I thought they were interested in cloud which was at one point scary is currently in its prime. Yeah, I don’t think that this is the best it’s going to get or…
HELEE: We’re peaking right now.
HELEE: Is that it?
RYAN: They’re saying like it’s a teenager. When is the prime? It must be 26, I guess. The cloud must be 26 in human years.
HELEE: Yeah. I mean I like the word you used, scary. I think in the past just technology has been unapproachable, scary, a big lift, something I need to get many stakeholders in my organization to agree to because I’m going to buy software and that’s scary and it integrates with my financial system which makes it scarier. But you know to your point, it’s less scary nowadays. The tech has gotten better and it’s a bit more lightweight. The integrations are easy. And then also, I think just the appetite for people to adopt the technology has gotten better. I think at this point, you might be a late adopter, but there’s no way that you’re agnostic and you’re going to say in your right mind that my organization will continue to push papers around for all of eternity. I think you kind of just acknowledge and know that no matter where you are on that adoption curve, it’s going to happen. So as far as I’m concerned, why not get going on it? So, I think that it’s a two-faceted notion that the attitude is caught up and the tech’s gotten a little bit less threatening.
RYAN: So, what are the advanced solutions? We’re going to talk about the advanced solutions if you want to transform AP. I don’t know that these are advanced yet, but I guess it can be personal context or your business culture context. Mobile applications; being able to approve mobility, that really helps with the time of processing an invoice because some of those department heads or managers where they don’t think of it as their job you know and it is their job. Maybe if they’re more accessible, they can do better. So mobile is big, agile reporting dashboards, digital payments, robotic process automation. You ever heard of that one, Helee? RPA?
HELEE: I have. RPA. Like if you said RPA, I would have known what that meant.
RYAN: You do?
RYAN: I know you do, of course. Machine learning, artificial intelligence and blockchain technology. Okay. So now I feel like we’re back to being scary again. And again, I don’t know if you understand it.
HELEE: Yeah. I don’t know. If you use big words like “blockchain” we might need another podcast.
RYAN: Yeah. We’re going to do another podcast, but I do want to touch on that for a little bit. And let’s say that I’m going to put this to bed officially forever; the difference between these things, okay? RPA, Robotic Process Automation. That essentially is when you’re programming the steps of a task to be done by a computer. It’s not a robot. It’s not a robot with a face and arms and hands, it just really isn’t. It’s programming the steps of a task such as looking up an account number extracted from a bill, determining if it has an associated general ledger account and entering that GL into the record. So, it’s just something that if you think that you could sit at a computer and do it yourself or sit with a piece of paper and do it yourself. We just program these repeatable tasks to be done in the fashion of RPA, right? So that’s what that is.
HELEE: Yeah, it makes sense.
RYAN: From a Forbes article to talk about AI or Artificial Intelligence versus machine learning, because that’s the other thing. They describe artificial intelligence as the broader concept of machines being able to carry out tasks in a way that we would consider smart, right? So, if RPA is just a robot doing something for you then you’re saying it’s not thinking yet. You’re saying artificial intelligence is when it can learn something and then do something differently or do something better. And then machine learning is just a more specific application of AI. So, they are pretty similar, but for machine learning an AP example might be a platform that flags an electricity bill for review because it says, “Hey, with all the data I have about the location, the weather, your past bills, this bill seems very high. You should take a look at it.” So that’s an example of using AI through machine learning to do something that you think “oh, a human would have to figure that out sort of thing”.
HELEE: And should the people listening to this podcast now that say, “Ah, but that’s my job, that’s my job.” Should they be quivering in their seats with their white iPods in their head saying, “My job is about to be taken by a robot? What’s next for me?”
RYAN: I think there’s a whole podcast on that. Actually, maybe in the notes, there’s a couple that we could refer. But I think when we talk to AP practitioners, Helee I appreciate the loaded question. But when we talk to them, we know that they have so much to do. There are so many strategic initiatives, there are so many ways that they understand they could add value to the organization. Few people that we talk to have been concerned about the operational or almost remedial tasks that need to be done so I don’t think that’s a huge concern today.
HELEE: So good to know there’s room for me and the robots.
RYAN: That’s right. So let’s talk a little bit about some of the advantages. I mentioned shortened invoice cycle times. Of course, we covered AI, RPA. I thought this was an interesting way to approach this comment, on paper, no pun intended, but I think the pun was intended. Digital payments make complete sense, but less than 20% of businesses today conduct digital payments. The stage is set for digitizing payment execution and settlement to become an accepted piece of the AP function. So when we talk about the capture and the approval and ultimately the payment and it sounds great, there’s still a huge opportunity there across companies.
HELEE: Yeah, and I think again it’s kind of what we talked about before. It’s a little bit of the fear of the tech or implementing it. I think there’s still a generation out there that very seriously fears putting their credit card number, their bank account number online and making digital payments. I think that will slowly change and has already started to change. I think my cohort certainly attends to favor a digital payment. And the research shows, I mean nowadays most of the fraud is coming from paper checks because that’s the easiest way you know to take someone’s account number or to forge something is a paper check. So it’s kind of a false sense of security that you know this piece of paper check I’m holding is the safest way. It’s actually not anymore. But again, we’ll take time for certainly attitudes to catch up and to be able to trust the tech and make sure the compliance is there so that people feel that their money is safe, you know?
RYAN: Absolutely agree. And now that we’ve talked about it a few times, I really want to point out the way that Ardent has presented the framework of AP automation or of ePayables because I really like it. I really like to boil things up at the highest level, if you will and dive into them. So, receive, process, pay. So, at the highest level, those are the three primary functions. Think about how to receive an invoice, how to process it, approvals, coding and then how to pay it. But they point out very intelligently here which I like, the three phases of the framework are not discrete stages, but rather pieces of one coherent whole. So, you want to make progress in process improvement and all of those that think about technology that either covers all of them or at least speaks across the different framework of receive, process and pay for automation.
HELEE: Yeah. It sounds so simple when you boil it up to those three sections, but we all know there’s a lot of nuances and complexities that live within each one of those.
RYAN: And let’s dive into some of those nuances actually. We’ll talk about the current AP solution utilization now versus just two years ago. So we’ll talk about what percentage of organizations is using some sort of technology compared to just two years ago and we’ll highlight a couple things here.
Document imaging and scanning, you’re now looking at 72% up from 20% just two years ago. Automated routing and approval workflow, again, about 70% up from 28%. We talked about document imaging and scanning so that’s taking a document and making sure you have a digital image of it, but what about capturing and extracting the data? You might as well do that while you’re in there. So that’s also up from the mid-twenties to almost 60%. Still a lot of opportunity there of automated data capture and extraction, also known as OCR or OCR with machine learning in Goby’s case. Outsourcing imaging and scanning so the service of outsourcing that, ePayment solutions are up quite a bit. The invoicing solutions, I think those are going to be pretty similar, are up quite a bit. And another one I like to talk about, the self-service supplier portal. Is that actually…
HELEE: It could’ve gone down.
HELEE: Yeah, it’s down. Interesting.
RYAN: Yeah, that is interesting.
HELEE: I feel like that is a topic for a future podcast.
RYAN: Yeah, not sure about that. Have to look at that some more. Okay. So, let’s dive into those as well still continue the conversation on the state of ePayables here. Let’s dive into the core tenants of the ePayables framework as they’re deployed across the globe. It’s a crucial steppingstone on its transformation journey from back office to strategic enterprise function.
HELEE: Sure, agreed.
RYAN: Sure, yeah. Agreed.
HELEE: Well done, Ardent.
RYAN: So glad I highlighted that and brought it up during the podcast.
HELEE: What other pearls have you?
RYAN: Another pearl, a very interesting one, dynamic discounting. So there’s obviously this opportunity for early payment discounts, right? When you do the whole spiel, people are really and what we see, they’re trying to avoid late fees and not thinking much about early payment discounts. And then the next level is saying we can automate early payment discount to decide, “Hey, you didn’t even offer me one, but I’ll make an offer. You want me to pay this? I got it ready to go. It’s only been four days since you sent the invoice. I’ll pay you right now. I want 4% off.”
HELEE: Totally, totally. But you’ve got to crawl before you walk before you run and we’re talking about people that have file cabinets of papers being put in folders and stamped by hand. So, when you talk about something like an early pay discount, I think it still remains aspirational or unique to really the best in class organizations.
RYAN: Yeah. I think that’s fair across the midmarket especially and that kind of aligns with this point. The journey is not the same old story of automate, automate, automate, but be strategic about automation and innovation. So, be thoughtful on how you approach this and how you… Is it “you crawl and then you walk and then you run”? I think was your point there.
HELEE: I don’t think I invented that, but if you want to give me the credit, I’ll take it.
RYAN: I will, I will. It’s all yours. So, some points on that. Less than one-third of all businesses, 28% have moderate to heavy automation of their analytics in an age when intelligence is primed as one of business’s most valuable commodities. This is actually somewhat disheartening. So I keep hearing this too that the data is so important, but people aren’t getting the value out of it just yet.
HELEE: Well, how can they if it’s sitting in the file cabinets?
RYAN: Touché, touché. So, file cabinets are the starting point. I think a few have made it past the filing cabinets at this point perhaps.
HELEE: Perhaps a few, but maybe still a couple more steps before they get the point, they can really leverage the rich information and data and also in a digestible way. So, I mean we’ve all been inundated with too much technology, too many dashboards. You’ve got to kind of give it to people in a consumable way and give them actionable insights. Not just “here’s a bunch of information”, but “here’s a bunch of information and also here’s what I recommend you do with it” kind of thing.
RYAN: That sounds glorious. Here’s an interesting statistic. Although exception management is the biggest problem, only a third of businesses have done any reasonable automation and exception management. So again, a huge opportunity.
So, let’s talk. I like pointing out some of their charts here. I think they’re pretty interesting or intend to catch my eye. The key elements required for AP’s performance to reach the next level so some of the ways to reach the next level. The biggest one, smarter systems that drive more efficiency. Deeper analytics, enhanced collaboration with key stakeholders so now we’re getting a little bit strategic here. Eradication of tactical tasks…
HELEE: Say that again.
RYAN: Eradication of tactical tasks.
HELEE: One more time.
RYAN: No, that’s it. Tactical tasks. So, I think eradication of tactical tasks is a hard way to say the eradication, I think that’s the interesting part, I think they’re saying like eradicate like it’s time to get rid of them nearly entirely, if not entirely. And you’re going to need executive support for a proper AP transformation.
HELEE: A proper anything really. You’ve got to get your organization to buy in. But if you present the business case in a savvy and thoughtful way, at least for accounts payable automation, it makes sense. It pays for itself so quickly that it’s almost hard to say no. I would say it’s hard to pass up.
RYAN: Yup. And as they point out here, collaboration remains a crucial piece of AP’s ongoing advancement. The AP function is destined to do great things, but it cannot and should not do it alone.
HELEE: That’s deep…
RYAN: It is. That’s powerful. And that inspirational note brings us to the end of part one which is halfway through the report. We’ve covered chapters one and two, “The States of Accounts Payable” and “The State of ePayables.” But before we close, as always, this being the first one, but as always, we will go to our…
HELEE: A new tradition starts with a single step.
RYAN: It does. And it’s an incredible little challenge in the world today of everything being so artisan and craft. That always catches my eye. This is called “Craft Coffee” or “Craft Beer” and the idea is one of us brings a favorite one of either of those to the table and I just challenge you to simply guess. Is it a coffee or is it a beer? This one, I was recently out west in California, really wanted to connect it a little bit more to accounts payable. Although we do have some great customers out there which is why I was out there, but I passed one called, it’s in Redondo Beach and it’s called “The Boy & The Bear.”
HELEE: Ooohh. All right. Well, knowing what I know about you Ryan, if you’re on vacation in Redondo beach, that’s gotta be a beer.
RYAN: I did say it was a work outing although some vacationing was involved, and you are wrong. I’m sorry, Helee. This was a very nice-looking craft slash artisan coffee maker. I would suggest checking it out if you happen to be in Redondo Beach. All right. Well, that was fun and that is the end.
HELEE: All right. Well, we survived our first podcast…
RYAN: We did.
HELEE: And Goby’s first podcast. Hopefully, listeners are still at the edge of their seats and anticipating episode two where we will finish breaking down the Ardent Report. In the meantime, do check us out at gobyinc.com. We appreciate you joining us. And also, if you have a minute, not only is there Automate This the podcast, but there is Automate This the cartoon. So have a look and we’ll catch you next time to finish up the Ardent Report on Automate This.