Automate This Episode #08: Payment fraud as a catalyst for AP automation

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  • April 16, 2020
  • Chris Ogletree
Automate This Episode #08: Payment fraud as a catalyst for AP automation

Automate This #08: Payment fraud as a catalyst for AP automation

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Fraud of any kind can provide a huge blow to your business both financially and to your company’s reputation. Unfortunately, as the current COVID-19 pandemic spreads, so do the crimes related to it, particularly phishing scams. Business owners have every right to be concerned. Join Goby’s Chief Executive Officer, Ryan Nelson, and Chief Revenue Officer, Helee Lev, sheltering and staying put, as they break down how AP automation creates a foundation of scalable controls in the accounts payable process that provide continuous protection from fraud.

Read the podcast transcript:

HELEE: Hello and welcome to Automate This; the podcast for conversations about accounts payable and beyond. Fraud can deal a huge blow to your business both financially and to your company’s reputation. And unfortunately, as we find ourselves now at the peak of a global pandemic, fraud and crimes, cybercrimes particularly phishing scams are even more rampant. Businesses need to be on the watch. Today, we are going to talk about how AP automation creates a foundation of scalable controls in the accounts payable process that provides continuous protection from fraud especially during these tough times. I’m Helee Lev, CRO of Goby, broadcasting from my home office in my day jammies.

RYAN: And I am Ryan Nelson, the Chief Executive Officer of Goby, also from my home office although I wore proper hard pants today.

HELEE: Good for you, winning. So Ryan, on the topic of fraud, have you ever personally been defrauded? Just in your personal life outside of your professional life.

RYAN: I imagine I have, but no examples of successfully like I’ve never had my identity stolen or anything like that. I remember this. A couple years ago, I was a sailor and I sailed to this one harbor town and I was walking around and there was a little carnival, right? You know these carnivals have these reputations that the games aren’t fair. You know you throw the thing and you could never knock over all the milk jugs or whatever. That’s fine. I know…

HELEE: I don’t know. I feel like I’ve won a stuffed animal or two in my day.

RYAN: Sure. It’s possible. But what happened was I asked a gentleman for change, this is worst, I asked him for change and I gave him a twenty and he goes, “Oh yeah” and he starts flipping through his wallet. And then he goes, “It’s kind of dark over here. Why don’t you walk over here?” So he makes me like walk around and go to a different spot and then he goes…

HELEE: Oh jeez.

RYAN: “Here’s your five.” Yeah and I’m like, “I gave you twenty.” He’s like, “Uh no, you gave me a ten.” But anyway it was very clear that he was…

HELEE: Ooohh.

RYAN: Throwing a distraction on me, moving me over and then trying to get me to agree that we disagree on what bill I gave him or whatever. And I felt really bad for this cute, little, small town because this carnival comes in for two or three days and I bet a lot of that kind of stuff got. Nothing against carnivals or carnival personnel in general; I’m sure they’re great people, but that one particular gentleman tried. But I was like, “No sir. I see what you’re doing here. I gave you a
twenty” and I got it back. So there was that, but no I’ve never had to go through that.

HELEE: So would you consider yourself to be unfraudable then?

RYAN: No. You know I wouldn’t go that far because I am not afraid of Ali. I have to call her Ali instead of Alexa because she’s listening…

HELEE: So she won’t go…

RYAN: To me all of the time…

HELEE: Yeah. She…

RYAN: So I’m not afraid…

HELEE: They’re always listening.

RYAN: Yeah. I’m not afraid to use all that stuff so there’s probably a reasonably good chance I could be defrauded, if that’s the word, but I just never have. Lucky, I guess.

HELEE: Yeah.

RYAN: What about you?

HELEE: Very lucky.

RYAN: Any situations where you’ve been taken advantage of in that sort of way?

HELEE: Yeah for sure.

RYAN: Defrauded?

HELEE: So I actually have. And the funny thing about it is it’s so personal. Like I don’t know if you felt it was personal with this guy that tried to take your cash you know. It’s so personal. In my case, it was a social security number thing. Someone had opened up credit cards under my name. I went to go buy my first condo you know in my twenties which was an exciting thing for me. And I go to close and all the documents are done, I got this loan, I did all these things and the guy calls me and he’s like, “Well, you didn’t tell me that you have like 18,000 dollars in credit card debt.” I’m like, “Well, I don’t.” And he said, “Well, you do because it’s associated with your thing.” So long story short, I was able to get it cleared up. It was not easy to get it cleared up with the credit bureaus, but the whole time I felt just so violated and helpless, right? Because someone had stolen my identity, run up these credit cards. In the end, it got resolved just fine, but I still don’t know how it happened. Still don’t know. Three different people were working with my social security number; me and two others in two other states. So yeah I guess it can happen to the best of us, but what about…

RYAN: It can. Ever since you told me that story, I don’t know, but I do the official, someone gave me this guys, like every four months, I actually check my credit reports now and I read them. There’s like…

HELEE: Oh yeah. Now, my…

RYAN: Three different organizations…

HELEE: Stuff’s on lockdown. Fool me once.

RYAN: Yes.

HELEE: But…

RYAN: So I do it. Like every four months, I do a different one. So like once every year and a half, I’m checking each one to see. But you know it doesn’t always have to be so boring and ugly. Did you ever see The Talented Mr. Ripley with Matt Damon and Jude Law?

HELEE: I don’t know if I saw that one. I saw the other one with Leonardo DiCaprio though, Catch Me If You Can where he was just like making…

RYAN: Ah.

HELEE: Fake passports and all that stuff.

RYAN: Fake checks…

Helee: Yeah.

RYAN: And fake checks was his big thing. Yeah.

HELEE: Fake checks.

RYAN: He had fake passports…

HELEE: Yeah.

RYAN: But you’re right. He was cutting checks. That was interesting. Talented Mr. Ripley, the Matt Damon character…

HELEE: Yeah.

RYAN: Slowly steals the entire personality and actually life of the Jude Law character. I think he kills Jude Law and then like…

HELEE: Ooohh. I might’ve seen that.

RYAN: Kind of becomes him and takes his girlfriend and his whole because this Jude Law character had a beautiful life in Europe somewhere and whatever. And so that…

RYAN: Was AP or what?

HELEE: Yeah. It was just…

RYAN: Yeah.

HELEE: This thing. We are not talking about how to steal Jude Law’s life. That’s not…

RYAN: No.

HELEE: What it’s about today. But you know on that topic, celebrities, this happens to celebrities too and now you know I’m going to bring it back a little bit to the accounts payable role. So in preparing for this podcast, I came across an example. So everybody knows or may or may not know Barbara from Shark Tank; smart lady, right? Built herself up from nothing, is a real estate mogul in New York. Obviously, intelligent woman, right? So she was defrauded of almost 400,000 dollars. Was an invoice scam and I’ll just read it. You know best to hear from her own mouth directly quote from her.

So Barbara says, “I lost 388,700 dollars as a result of a fake email chain sent to my company. It was an invoice supposedly sent by my assistant to my bookkeeper approving the payment for a real estate renovation. There was no reason to be suspicious as I invest in a lot of real estate.” So this was you know someone famous, someone high profile, someone who probably has her business in order, but got defrauded via a fraudulent invoice.
So when you start to think about accounts payable you know you want to have a transparent accounts payable department, but you need to have controls within your AP department to catch these things before they happen. So if you have good automated AP processes, you’re eliminating you know the paper that’s coming through your organization. You have proper checks and balances, you’re going to mitigate the risk you know from this type of fraud.

RYAN: Do you know what tactic, what technical tactic was used to pull that one off?

HELEE: I do know because you taught me, but since it’s your term I’ll let you say it.

RYAN: That part of it was email spoofing. And I’ll bet everyone listening right now, all the hundreds of thousands of you, have seen this by now; email spoofing. And it’s rampant right now where someone basically sends an email as if they were someone else. It’s as simple as that. And they do a good enough job of contextualizing, doing the research, figuring out who the controller or the treasurer or the CEO or the CFO is and they figure out who the assistant is or who the bookkeeper is or they figure out someone else’s name. And they have your whole organization figured out which I’m sure isn’t hard between LinkedIn and what you might put on your own website. Building an org chart of a company is probably not that hard anymore. And they just send a simple email…

HELEE: It’s always urgent, right? They always send like it’s like red exclamation mark. This must be paid today. Send this wire right now signed CEO or like the person receiving it thinks it’s an urgent request from their CEO. They don’t have time to even think through it you know.

RYAN: Yeah. And it’s not that difficult to unwind and figure it out, but it’s also not that difficult to just make the mistake and to just see it and jump into the online bank and do what you’ve got to do. So…

HELEE: Yeah.

RYAN: I’m sure again everyone has seen those.

HELEE: Yeah. So another example of this that I read about, not as exciting or high profile as Barbara, but they’re calling this woman the AP superhero who prevented her organization from being billed fraudulently 120,000 dollars. So similar kind of thing; email came in. I believe in the case of this story, the person actually hacked into her organization so it wasn’t like one letter off or almost looked like the email address. It was the actual email from her organization. But long story short, they had a very established AP process with certain controls and certain procedures. And this was, long story short, was just out of procedure. You know the bill came in, it looked accurate, it looked like it could’ve been. They had a specific procedure for foreign bills and there were just a couple things that were off about it that caused her to flag it. It was the same thing; high sense of urgency. I’ll send you this after. This needs to be wired immediately. Please send it right now. You know just a lot of bullying and pressure, but long story short, this woman was well-trained, they had good processes at their organization. She recognized it, flagged it and essentially saved her company from being defrauded for 120,000 dollars on one bill.

RYAN: Good, good, good.

HELEE: Yeah.

RYAN: Another one. We found I’ll just say a big oil company that I did consulting for a long time ago. It was kind of leaked from working in the P2P department or the procurement department kind of leaked that an invoice under 10,000 dollars, the approval authority, this company is so big, let’s call it Fortune Three. They just paid anything under 10,000 dollars, right? You could send them an invoice as a vendor for 9,999 dollars and the approval rules were pay that.

HELEE: Just pay it.

RYAN: So yeah. It’s not worth our time you know. We’re a multi-billion dollar thing. It’s not worth our time to evaluate this little thing. If someone asked me you know told me to pay a three penny invoice, I would pay it, right? It’s sort of like that’s what 9,000 dollars is you know. So can you just deal with? I don’t want to untangle it. So if you got on that vendor list somehow and you said…

HELEE: That’s what I was going to ask. It’s only approved vendors though, like right? That are in the vendor master. You couldn’t just be a vendor not affiliated in their system. You had to have been approved through their procurement system.

RYAN: You know I don’t know how much of this was a rumor or real, but there you can be an ad hoc vendor. Perhaps a one-time purchase and it wasn’t against the PO and you go ahead and just cut the check and send it you know. I don’t know that it actually ever happened, but that was the big rumor that just send them an invoice for 9,999 bucks and you’re good to go.

HELEE: Is that still the case? Could I send them an invoice? We should try it one time for fun to see what happens, but I don’t want to get arrested. I just kind of want to see what happens. I don’t even want their money.

RYAN: I do believe it to be illegal, but if you did it for like fifty cents to prove a point then I don’t think there would be that much damages. You know what I mean?
HELEE: Yeah. I guess I’d have to pay back the damages or something then send maybe like another 50 cents for suffering.

RYAN: Yeah. They’d be like, “You need to pay back five times the damages” and then you just give them two dollars and fifty cents and be like…

HELEE: We’re good.

RYAN: “Thank you for this example that I can use in future podcasts.”

HELEE: All right. Well, we’ll table that for a rainy day. It might be a long quarantine then that might sound like a fun idea in another couple days of this. All right. So that’s couple examples good and bad of external fraud. What about internal fraud?

RYAN: Yeah. It’s something to think about. According to the National Federation of Independent Business, an employee is fifteen times more likely than a non-employee to steal from an employer which makes sense. You’re there, you see what’s going on. The employees account for around 40% of theft losses at stores. Still though, the bulk of fraud, 60, 65% occurs from outside the business. Email scams, overcharging, money laundering, these things can go undetected when you know especially if you’re an organization that starts to have a significant volume. It’s always with volume and with the growth of your company that your homegrown processes no longer hold up. But to your point about external, yes. You’ve got to watch out there. They’re kind of behind the firewall if you will…

HELEE: You know…

RYAN: With you in the trusted circle so it opens up a whole other layer of controls that you have to apply. And that’s why the whole email spoofing happens. Because you believe it’s coming from a trusted resource even though hey normally this isn’t how we request payments, but it’s coming from a trusted resource, my CFOs and my CEOs, so go ahead and do it. So yes, it is.

HELEE: I wonder too that stats that says 65% you know is external, but employees are fifteen times more likely. I wonder if the internal ones are just more egregious. So you talked about an external example like the you know the big oil company where people could pass their 9,500 dollar bills. But then I think about another example one of our employees always talks about. They were migrating ERP systems and this lady was the head of the department so she was inside the company. And this is also like a, got to be a Fortune 10 company. She had full control over the ERP initiative, migration of thousands of vendors. So she ended up setting up one vendor. You know you have 6,000 vendors, what’s 6,001? Set up another vendor. It was during this migration so you know they were kind of switching things over. And long story short, the vendor was herself and I forget how much money she stole. And she did go to jail and all that, but I mean hundreds of thousands of dollars in small payments. But because she was inside, she was able to set herself up as a vendor. She knew how to pay it, she was the head of the department so she was also one of the approvers. Something like that, but it was very you know. Yeah, you’ve got to think about that kind of stuff unfortunately.

RYAN: Yeah. Yeah. I think the stat about the internal has to do with just like pure stealing in addition to like fraudulent scams of whatever. It’s like I’m going to take this and leave with it which is why it’s fifteen times more likely.

HELEE: It’s skewed up embezzlement.

RYAN: Do you remember, do you remember that movie? Was it Incredible Office Space, I think it is? The one that the Beavis and Butt-head…

HELEE: Yeah, yeah where he’s like…

RYAN: Or something like that?

HELEE: We’ll take a penny from every or a fraction of a penny every time this thing happens. Yeah.

RYAN: Correct. That was the whole scam.

HELEE: Yeah.

RYAN: But the funny part is they were stealing that scam from I think he said it was Superman III. You may be just a touch too young, but do you remember the Superman movies from like the ‘80s maybe? Or the late ‘70s?

HELEE: It may not be like a young girl thing…

RYAN: Let’s stick with ‘80s.

HELEE: It might be more of like a genre thing. Like that’s just never been in my wheelhouse of…

RYAN: Superman? The Christopher Reeve…

HELEE: Nah.
RYAN: Superman, no?

HELEE: I know who he is, but that’s that.

RYAN: I think it was yeah Superman I, II, III and even IV. People might say it’s not good, but it was good. But III, I think that that was one of the scams in Superman III. But I’m sure he resolved it.

HELEE: That was a good one. All right. So whether it’s internal or external, you’ve got to have your guard up and there’s always going to be red flags, right? So things smell fishy. So let’s talk about some of those red flags.

So the rush, right? I kind of talked about that sense of urgency. Whenever someone’s like high-pressuring you to pay something, sometimes maybe it’s real you know. Sometimes maybe something slipped through the cracks, you’re trying to avoid some sort of crazy fee, it has to be paid today, but that’s like a good red flag to double, triple check. And if you get an email from your CEO saying, “Pay this immediately today! Red exclamation mark. Wire the money right now!” Just call them or walk over to his desk or shoot the email over to him, just be like, “You’re cool with this, right? Like this is intentional, right?” And you could cut it off and shut it down right there. Just double check. No one’s going to hate you for double-checking you know? And oftentimes, like we said, those email addresses, they might be one letter off, the name might look correct even if the email address isn’t correct. Or in the case that I talked about you know the one I read, it was actually an email address from within the organization. It was a perfect impression of the individual who would’ve usually done that.

Another red flag, management bypassing SOPs. So there’s a reason you have these established processes within the organization. There are certain steps, there might be POs, there might be matching steps. If someone’s asking you to bypass those, that’s also a red flag or indicator that something might be wrong. Those steps are there for a reason. You should be following them 99% of the time. And again, if something seems out of the ordinary, just ask. No one’s going to hate you for asking, right?

And then just diligent management practices on the vendor master. So you have vendors come, you have vendors go. Depending on the type of organization, it might be seasonal, you might be adding providers, you might be trying out different providers, keeping that thing squeaky clean is going to be important. Because say you have a vendor that you used to do business with, but you haven’t in a couple years, it never got cleaned up. Well, that vendor if they’re still on your system, you know apparently they could still submit a bill for 9,999 dollars to a big oil company and get it paid right away. But one way to clean that up potentially would be to take those vendors you know off the master and keep that pretty clean.
So yeah if you have these types of preventative controls, that’s going to make it difficult. You know that’s the first barrier to fraud. Now, a second type of control, a detective control, that’s one that’s likely to uncover an error or fraud. So that’s after it has already penetrated your organization. There’s other controls or processes you know. Flagging a duplicate is an example of that. So if you have a robust AP automation system like Goby, one shameless plug per podcast I’m allowed, it’s going to capture those duplicate invoices. It’s going to flag them and it’s going to push them out you know for someone to look at, not let them get through the system.

And then there’s corrective controls. So once a problem has been discovered, it’s too late, at least you have a corrective action. Maybe in the case of if it’s a check, you can stop payment, other things. But having these different procedures whether they’re preventative, detective, corrective, written down, followed, adhered to, audited, it’s important you know because the criminals are out there. And as times get more desperate, there’s going to be more criminals out there and they’re smart, you know? They’re not dumb. So…

RYAN: Agreed. Some of them are smart which is why they get away with this stuff for sure.

HELEE: There is one I heard. I’m going to botch this a little bit, but the concept is correct. I want to say it was in Asia somewhere where one of the companies, they put out a challenge to hackers and they were essentially like, “Any hacker who can penetrate our system, we will give you 200,000 dollars or something, but then you’ve got to tell us how.” Like essentially to help them discover weaknesses. I don’t remember if it was a bank or what it was and I also don’t know if you know the hacker ever got the 200,000 dollars or if they just got arrested. I’m actually not sure, but it was you know perhaps a clever idea.

RYAN: Was that Ocean’s Eleven?

HELEE: Oh, you’re just like super. I can tell you’ve been quarantined for a while because you’re talking about all these movies.

RYAN: That just sounds a little dramatic to me. No, but no, I’ve seen it definitely. It’s an insurance policy. I’ve seen it plenty of times. People…

HELEE: Yeah.

RYAN: Putting hacker contests out there…

HELEE: Yeah, yeah.

RYAN: So that they can find their weak spots for sure. I can do a whole thing on hacking.
Hacking is not actually, like doesn’t mean bad guys hacking. Hacking itself is a way of coding and having a community of coders and you know whatever. That’s a whole other thing.

HELEE: Maybe we’ll table that as a topic for episode nine or beyond, but this is…

RYAN: Yes.

HELEE: Episode eight. So focus on fraud and how the AP department is going to help if it’s automated properly.

RYAN: Yeah. So let’s talk about that. It will help. It can help. One thing that I thought was interesting there as well is the concept, forgetting about automation or not, but of a centralized process versus a decentralized process, right? If you have a bunch of locations, does every location handle their own receipt and payment of invoices or is it centralized? If it’s centralized, does everything go from the vendors to the central location? Or does it start at the decentralized locations and then get there? There’s pros and cons of a centralized and a decentralized platform or process. What an automated solution will do for you and let’s just say a cloud-based solution even or a SAS offers a service solution, what it does is it kind of gives you the best of both worlds. It gives you a centralized system so that you have one process flow. You manage your exceptions through one process flow even. It does all of the pros of a centralized system, but still allows, because it’s in the cloud and because it’s accessible from anywhere anytime, it’s still decentralized.

So maybe your vendor instruction is to send your invoices to a certain email address or to a certain PO Box, but maybe a vendor walks in to one of your locations and drops off a bill. Well, all somebody has to do is take a picture of that bill and get it to the centralized system. So you’re kind of working in this. I mean it’s fairly obvious, but you can access anything anywhere. So you have the pros of decentralization because any department, any person anywhere in the world can see what’s happening in the journey of an invoice, but you have the controls of everything being owned by one central process and you know whatever the corporate program is for them.

So that’s I think one of the core reasons that an automated platform gives you success. And then it does, all we’re ever doing with automation is taking the best practices and making them absolute rules, right? Separation of duties or separation of roles, you could do that without automation. With automation, it will absolutely happen every time. You just put it in place and you can’t get around it. Two-factor authentication; that’s a technology thing. Positive Pay, making sure that banks will only pay checks that you’ve told them that you’ve actually submitted ahead of time being proactive. These are practices that maybe were difficult to do or easy to do if you put an automated process in first then it’s just you’re constantly following the best practice all the time.
And then as far as payments go, so that talks a lot about getting through the approvals and not having someone fake you out and getting something approved that’s not real or it’s a fake vendor or whatever. And then you get to the payments, payments of course are the number one target. Or I mean within payments, the number one target is checks. Checks are still the weak point. I think we had a great cartoon, if I recall, on Automate This the cartoon where there is kind of an Ocean’s Eleven kind of thing, back to the movies. Where this guys is trying to plan like, “Ooohh how do I break into this thing? I build this tunnel and then we’ll parachute out of there and we’ll steal these people’s money.” And then the other…

HELEE: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah I remember that one. That was…

RYAN: Yeah. And the other thief…

HELEE: Yeah.

RYAN: Is like, “Why do all that? They still pay by check. They’re going to be real easy to defraud…”

HELEE: That’s right.

RYAN: “And steal from. We don’t need a fancy helicopter or parachute.” So you’ve got to be…

HELEE: Well, and paper checks are…

RYAN: Careful with those checks.

HELEE: Paper checks are just funny to me because you know I do think of, as long as we’re on movies today, right? I think of Leonardo DiCaprio and that movie took place a long time ago, right? And you know so Leonardo DiCaprio, whatever era that movie took place and has a typewriter and he’s impersonating these paper checks. And like fast forward 20, 30 years, however long, maybe more. Maybe 40 years and we’re still using…

RYAN: Yeah.

HELEE: Paper checks, right? Like the technology has come so far. Do not use a piece of paper you know a check. And insult to injury, not only are you exposing yourself to fraud, you’ve got to pay a buck 25 to print and mail that thing; so dumb. Stop doing it.

RYAN: Well, yeah. And then let’s put the you know the pandemic backdrop on it. We have to, for us for example, we still have people that will pay us by check, okay? And I love those customers. I will take your checks all day long. Don’t get me wrong. We’re now going, every other week, someone has to go to our office for the 1% of the exception checks and pick them up, right? Every other vendor, 99% of our vendors, ACH; that’s how they pay us. Our customers, let’s say that’s how they’re paying us. They’re paying us with ACH or the very least they’re mailing the checks to our centralized location. They’re being auto-digitized and it’s great. The 1% that say I have to mail it to your corporate headquarters. That’s the only way I’m going to pay you. Okay.

So now we have to send someone down there, risk them going to the office, getting these checks, then they’ve got to go to the bank after that and like manually deposit them. So it throws off our whole procedure. And who knows? No one has been there in eight days. There could be a pile of checks in the you know whatever. We’re trying to figure out our idea, but we haven’t gotten those checks yet. So again, the backdrop of the pandemic just proves how the manual processes aren’t good.

HELEE: And wires too you know on the subject of payment. So we did a separate you know video lesson about the difference between paper check, ACH, wire, different types of payment. The main dangerous thing with wires is that they’re not reversible. So once the money goes, it goes. That’s it. You can’t stop payment, you can’t take it back. All right. So on that note, I think we’re oh yeah. Go ahead.

RYAN: I was going to mention the one advantage of going to the office to get the checks is…

HELEE: You get to leave your house?

RYAN: There’s…

HELEE: You get to go out in the world?

RYAN: There’s tap…

HELEE: You get to see people?

RYAN: And there’s tap, yes. And there’s tap beer there, right? So…

HELEE: Ah.

RYAN: I’m a big craft beer fan and I can’t go to a pub anymore and get a draft beer, but I’m starting to wonder you know how long is that craft beer that’s at our office, that tap beer, how long is it going to be good.
HELEE: And here I was…

RYAN: So that’s one of the perks.

HELEE: Thinking that you’re a martyr, sacrificing, risking your life to go get checks for our company to keep it going and yet it was all about the draft beer.

RYAN: I know my beer and I know my coffee, Helee.

HELEE: All right. Well, let’s see if that’s true. And this is getting embarrassing at this point. So we’re like eight episodes in. I think I’ve been wrong every time and you’ve been right every time so you got that going for you. All right, here’s one. Ready? I’m going to butcher the name. “West…

RYAN: What is it? What are we? Is this, are we playing “Beans and Beer” right now?

HELEE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s time for “Beans and Beer.” Obviously, this is episode eight…

RYAN: Oh! “Beans and Beer!”

HELEE: Our hundreds of thousands of listeners…

RYAN: Everybody knows this.

HELEE: They know the drill by now. Eight episodes in…

RYAN: They know it’s…

HELEE: We don’t have to…

RYAN: “Beans and Beer!” “Beans and Beer.”

HELEE: Yeah. We don’t to introduce…

RYAN: Yeah. Okay.

HELEE: The game. Yeah. “Beans or Beer” is…

RYAN: All right.

HELEE: The game we’ve played all eight episodes…

RYAN: Yeah.

HELEE: For all hundreds of thousands of listeners, apologies if I don’t say this right. All right. “Westmalle Tripel.”

RYAN: I’m sorry. Say it again.

HELEE: “Westmalle Tripel.”

RYAN: “Westmalle Tripel?”

HELEE: Yeah.

RYAN: Tripel. Can you spell it please?

HELEE: Sure. First word, two words: W-E-S-T-M-A-L-L-E space, second word, T-R-I-P-E-L.

RYAN: Oh, that has to be beer.

HELEE: Yeah, it is. I went to Belgium…

RYAN: It is, yeah.

HELEE: A girl on my team works in Belgium. I was thinking about it…

RYAN: Because that’s a Belgium, Tripel is what I was…

HELEE: Yeah.

RYAN: It’s a Belgian beer.

HELEE: Yeah. So when drinking, and I’m totally butchering the name, the “Westmalle Tripel” you should be careful it says. Being fruity, golden and tasty, it is easy to forget this particular beer is 9.5% so there.

RYAN: Be careful with that for sure. In Belgium, we have a colleague in Belgium, right?

HELEE: Yeah, that’s why I picked it.

RYAN: That’s where she is?

HELEE: That’s what I was saying. It was a shout-out to her.

RYAN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good, yeah. We miss her and I hope she and all the people in Belgium are as well as they can be.

HELEE: Agreed.

RYAN: Okay. Well, thank you for challenging me in “Beans or Beer” and for making it not too difficult. One thing I wanted to kind of maybe this can be the closing thought now. We don’t want to create too much fear factor for our audience. We’re not trying to scare hundreds of thousands of people here. What you’re going to do is you’re going to put in an automation platform and it’s going to put the right things in place. You are not going to be constantly on guard and there’s some sense of that. You know don’t fall for spoof emails, over-communicate internally. But if you build the right processes and you put controls and you put automation in place, it’s kind of a set it and forget it situation especially with SAS.

Because organizations like Goby, we’re staying on top of what the latest, greatest fraud, what kinds of things are happening and we’re building it into our platform. And those roll out as update to you on a regular basis. So it’s not even as if you’ve bought something and now it doesn’t have the new stuff. You’re constantly getting the latest, greatest stuff. So yeah don’t be too worried about this is going to happen to me or I have to be you know over-anxious or on guard all the time. Build a thoughtful process, put your automation in place and stay up to date.

HELEE: Agreed. All right. Well, that brings us to the conclusion of episode eight. Thank you for listening and check us out at #automatethis on your favorite social media channel and we’ll catch you next time. Thanks.

Chris Ogletree

Chris joined Goby as Inbound Marketing Coordinator in 2016, taking over generation and development of client-facing content, such as email campaigns, website administration, and marketing collateral. He has been an integral part in Goby's rebranding project and website redesign.

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